Friday, June 9, 2017

Discussion 6: COMMENTS on texts (June 13)

In order, the June 8 texts were:

1) NYTimes article
2) Cartoons
3) New Orleans 1891
4) The Black Hand (short)
5) Son of Italy

COMMENTS in two separate paragraphs:

1) Connect the NYT article to one of the other texts, and explain how they reinforce each other.

2) Which one of the other texts (NYT article excluded) grabbed your attention the most?

REPLY: choose a comment that made you say "Hmmm, I didn't think about it" and leave a reply.

34 comments:

  1. The NYT article reminds of the struggles the villagers face in Son of Italy. In the article, the author describes how workers were considered “subhuman” and were paid an awful wage. They did backbreaking work and spent hours traveling to and from the farms. They did whatever it took to ensure survival. They were also expected to pay a “tribute” to their overseer. Son of Italy brings these details to life. D'Angelo father worked tirelessly every waking moment of his life to support the family, but still struggled to pay the rent of the land. Around age 12, D’Angelo stopped going school and began working in the fields full-time. Children couldn't even pursue their dreams, they need to to be out on the farm--everyone had to work in order to survive.

    The text that grabbed my attention the most so far was chapter 4 of Son of Italy. To me the ending of this chapter was tragic. When D’Angelo reveals to his mother that he wants to go to America with his father, she starts sobbing and embraces him, accepting his decision. D’Angelo promised that he would return for her (at this point he mentions that in hindsight he never did). She kisses him and says that “Children are like birds.” It was time for D’Angelo to fly away. This exchange struck a chord with me. I couldn't imagine what it would like to leave my mother at a young age, never to see her again.

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    1. I found it sad that Pascal at only twelve had to leave school to work and help his family survive. It's hard to know that times are so hard that people at times have to make great sacrifices just to have the basic necessities in life.

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    2. I guess I didn't really think of it that way before. I'm so used to hearing about how hard life used to be and the sacrifices people made so long ago, that I didn't stop to think about how I would feel in that situation.

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    3. Although I never left school altogether, my studies were compromised a few years back as I attempted to balance two jobs with high school to help out with the finances at home. My siblings and I have worked ever since we were little, taking on jobs like private tutoring and learning new skills like tailoring to create yet another source of income. I grew up in a 3 bedroom townhouse with ten residents at a time. I really wish there was a way that D'Angelo was able to keep going on with his studies, but I can imagine the difficulties financially, especially since he was the eldest boy. My sister, being the eldest, also made many sacrifices for the family, including academics and a social life. It is nearly impossible for me to describe the rollercoaster of emotions that poured through me as I read the first four chapters of the book. My father lefts his mother to come to America in his twenties, although he had the blessing of visiting her on a few occasions. His mother is now old and is requesting for him to come see her ONE LAST TIME. Although our family is deep in financial debt, a mother's request is hard to ignore.

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    4. I am sorry if my thoughts in the last comment are a bit disorganized. This was hard for me to write, but since our class is focusing so much on immigration to the United States and life before and after, I found it relevant to share my personal experiences.

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    5. Sons of Italy is interesting. We are so fortunate now to live in a world where we have so many resources to help us succeed

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  2. I would love to show Italian-Americans the cartoons made of them, and then show them the cartoons made of Mexicans and Muslims today. They are comparable in that they depict people as animalistic beasts. Cartoons portray them as less than people, and as something not worthy of entering this "great" country. Italians were once portrayed as criminals with knives and guns, just as Mexicans are portrayed as Trump said, "bad hombres." They were both seen as people who can destroy the youth and pollute the population. Therefore, Italian Americans should sympathize and empathize!

    The other text that stood out to me was the four chapters of "Son of Italy" I have read. The text hits me because I have heard a similar account from my grandfather. My grandfather's family first moved to Argentina, but then he came to America on his own with cousins. His father died when he was young, so he only had his mother, sister, and two brothers in Argentina as immediate family. I remember him telling me how difficult it was to make the decision to move and leave his mother behind. When moving, he wasn't sure if his mother would ever come. Unlike Pascal, his mother did come to America and they were able to be together again. Unfortunately, one of his brothers and his sister stayed behind and continued life in America. I'm interested in continuing to read D'Angelo's story. I want to learn how D'Angelo "flies," and how he learns to live in America. Without a doubt, I foresee it being a heartbreaking story.

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    1. I agree with kara ,you would think that they would sympathize .but the thing with people is that they tend to forget . When we look at the world today Italian Americans are doing pretty good for themselves , so understanding their ancestors isn't a easy one . For the fact that they didn't live it . But Mexicans and african americans feel daily what their ancestor fought for . Their sympathize can't do nothing for Mexicans .Thats like seeing someone being hurt for them ,but don't help them ,then you being adding to the problem . Italian American if they want to should be active in the fight for equal opportunity and fair living .

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    2. I agree with Kara and Safiatou. I wish people would look back at our history and see how we treated all kinds of immigrants in the past, it's exactly how we treat immigrants today.

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  3. All these text relate to each other , there are showing parts of the same struggles. If all these characters were to meet they would be able to reply because they have one that binds them together . They share the same tribe .If I had to compare the text I would begin with the NYT article and the "son of Italy" , the grandmother in the article and the father in the "son of Italy" left Italy for the same reason . The level of poverty can be seen in both text and how it affect families just simply wanting to survive .Another comparison would with be with the NYT article and the black hand . In the article we read about how doctor Lombroso plant the false seed of the black hand into the minds of Americans about his own people . He was called to save his people instead did the opposite . In black hand we see crimes of Italians with blackmailing ,kidnapping and etc. All because of this most Italians were not welcome to America with open hands , instead they were not wanted .


    New orleans of 1891 stood out to me . After learning about the detail of the tragic event and how it played out , I immediate picture the life of the men that lose their life and what their family must had been going through that time period . The fact that the people accusing their people didn't even solid evidence against their men was very upsetting . Killing their guys didn't bring justice for the officer was killed . Just add more sad families that lose their father ,son , husband . These men that accused the men were so eager to kill that they even accused a men that lived next door to the officer . Since when was living next to person a crime .But with todays time we can easily see its because the men were Italian American . These men actually crime was being Italian American not killing the officer . The biggest massacre of America history was all because Americans did not know how to live along people that were not from their tribe .

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    1. At first I didn't realize the impact that Lombroso's false depiction of Italians did. It made Americans have negative connotations about Italians and it is truly heartbreaking to read about. His theory probably also had more of an impact because he was Italian himself.

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  4. The NYT article "When America Barred Italians" tells the history or racism received by Italians in Europe before they immigrated to the United States. In the 1900's The United States opened its boarders welcoming Italians to the country. A man named Lombroso who was known as a traitor gave descriptions of Italians coming to America as short, hairy, big noses and ears, and violent. This was the start to their severe discrimination in the United States. They were branded as savages, rapist, and the ones responsible for crime.

    This article ties into what happened to Italian-Americans in New Orleans 1891. This was the time of the largest massacre of Italian-Americans in the United States. Many were lynched and murdered and the reason for this was because they were not considered fully white, but somewhere in between. They were looked down upon for working jobs that were considered low and jobs for African Americans to do.



    I really enjoyed reading "Son of Italy". I learned a lot about the culture of Italians as well as the poverty in which they lived. I also found many surprising things while reading, such as neighbors having the unspoken right to beat the other children. They could walk into the house of the child and beat them and their parents could not protect them from it. I later read that they all considered one another family so they had the right to discipline each other's children. Another part of the text that grabbed my attention was in chapter three when the residents of the village had to deal with a woman they all believed was a witch. I felt badly about how she was treated toward the end. I think she was just misunderstood and knew she was not appealing to the eyes so she used fear to get what she needed in order to survive; but all she wanted was acceptance.

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    1. I completely forgot about Lombroso's comments. He use faulty criminal science to give his hateful observations more credibility. How convenient for him that his account of criminals matches the appearance of Italian immigrants.

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  5. The NYT article details a life of poverty and hardship for the average person who was considered subhuman. In Son of Italy, D' Angelo grows up with his entire family toiling the fields. Once he turned 12 years old he dropped out of school to join his family. His home town is ripe with beggars and people who are barely passing by chose to give whatever they can. Lombroso's theory of a "born criminal" negatively influenced propaganda against Italians which depicted them as animals and an infestation.

    New Orleans 1891 stood out to me because it shows how easily influenced people are. The media propagated a false image of Italians to an American public that failed to challenge it. Its clear they just needed someone to blame and ironically by way of mob mentality, committed acts of horror as a false form of justice.

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    1. Wow! I didn't think about the severity of Lombroso's theory. i think that his theory weighed so much because he was Italian himself. To others, him being Italian probably made him a credible person to make these claims ans that's why they were seen as justified.

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    2. Hi Hazel. I did not think about the role media may have played in the New Orleans lynchings. I failed to make that connection. Thank you for bringing that to light. I do agree with the scapegoat image you describe. I have read in countless history textbooks that when something goes wrong, people are always in search of a scapegoat just to have someone other than themselves to blame. I see this theme repeated through the texts and media we have seen thus far. How do you think that this search of a scapegoat applies to the Mexican and Muslim bans that Trump and his supporters have been trying to implement? How are they using the media to promote this image?

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    3. Hazel, I love how you related Lombroso's theory of how they are "born criminal" to how they were depicted as animals and an infestation because I have no doubt that his theory had so much to do with the Italian Americans being treated as such.

      Mitsuka, It didnt register to me originally that Lombroso being Italian himself would make his theory so much more believable. I guess that just slipped my mind that it would impact the reaction people had to his theory. Thinking about it now because you brought it up, that if he maybe wasn't Italian himself people might not have taken his theory as serious and the Italian Americans might not have treated the way they were.

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    4. Hazel, I agree with your points about New Orleans. I think this is exactly what is happening in todays world as well, when it comes to labeling specific races/religions and putting everyone under the same category.

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    5. I agree with what you said about New Orleans, the public opinion left by Lombroso must have influenced the people too band together in their hate and to take action in such a terrible way.

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  6. The NYT article discussed many things, including the descriptions of Italians by one of their own, Dr. Cesar Lambroso. He described these innocent, hardworking people as "criminal" and "physiologically inferior." But he didn't just stop at that, he also spoke negatively about their physical appearances - something that is completely out of their control! He described them as short, dark, and hairy, with big jaws and noses. To me, this connects to the cartoons we looked at. Many times, a degrading picture of someone is the worst form of insult possible - like they say "a picture is worth a thousand words." The cartoons relied on the stereotypical image of Italians most people had, featuring short, dark, men with a lot of hair and big noses, as reinforced by Dr. Lombroso, and the negative images are what cause the cartoons to be so damaging.

    I was struck by the Black Hand video. It was so sad to see people being manipulated by their fellow Italian Americans. These people all came to America for a better life, free of cruel landlords, and instead they get intimidated and harassed by criminals and thugs, exactly the kind of people they left their previous lives to get away from.

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    1. Hello Yocheved, I completely agree. I haven’t realized until now that that is exactly how they are drawn out to be. It is easier to believe that they are bad people when they look mean and ugly. When portraying them to be such meaty ugly looking people, the American people began to actually see them as such unfortunately. You are right it is very sad thinking that even their own turned on them. People wanted a better life and instead they got something even worse.

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    2. I certainly agree that the cartoons are an egregious depiction of Italians, and would be of any people for that matter. The association between the photos and the studies of Lambroso is very clever. That definitely did not cross my mind. His studies, or his gravely inaccurate opinions, spearheaded under the name of science to scare, manipulate and shape the thoughts and feelings of, especially for the purposes to depict a group of people in a negative light, was a crime of a very grotesque nature.

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  7. The connection that I can make to the NYT article is the cartoons that we viewed. In many of the cartoons, there were these depictions of Italians as animals that we would consider pests. (Mice, or being depicted with ape-like features). No offense to animals, but we humans often place ourselves above animals. They are often seen as inferior to us. These cartoons depict how Italians were viewed when they came to america. They were seen as problems, unwanted, nuisances(just like we would consider mice). Also, there was one specific cartoon that depicts american pied piper leading mice (representing Italians) away from Europe while the aristocrats cheered on in the background. The NYT article specifically discusses this when it talks about some folks back in Italy believing that the Italians going to America was a good thing because they thought their most troublesome citizens were leaving the country.


    The other text that struck a cord with me was the black hand video. This was only because it depicted how simple and easy these criminal acts were committed. It also amazed me how much of the "black hand" actions occurred in plain sight. Although there was a lot of sneakiness involved, things seemed to occur in the midst of everyday life. I was also surprised to see the role that the woman played in the kidnapping of the child. When I originally read about the black hand, i thought that this was something only men engage din. not once did I think the women were involve din these criminal acts. Especially considering the fact that women are usually considered to be more nurturing and less violent. This made the black hand video very shocking for me.

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  8. - The Political cartoons reinforce the NY Times article because they show that despite Italian-Americans working for their wages, they were treated as inferiors. Similarly, in the article we see workers treated as inferiors as the practice of prima notte allowed owners to outright claim their workers' wives if they wanted to keep their jobs and continue feeding their families. This shows Italian workers being perceived as subhuman. Both, the article and the cartoons show Italian workers as beggars. To elaborate, in the cartoon captioned "New Country, Old Jobs," we see Italian-American women and children begging in front of a church. Similarly, in the article we see women given as tribute to allow the poor Italians to keep their jobs and minute income.

    The video and my personal research on the Black Hand attracted my attention the most, after the NY Times article, because it presented information that was completely new to me. When I was going through the political cartoons, which I did prior to the video and my personal research on the Black Hand, I did not understand the political cartoons with references to the Black Hand. When looking at the political cartoon with the caption "Consumer - Why not tax him?" I initially did not understand why the Italians would not be paying taxes. I refrained from giving the artist credibility because I believed that no one can live in America without paying taxes, or they would go to jail. However, after I completed my research, my reactions changed. I realized that theft by cash is not recorded in bank records and can easily pass by without the government's notice. What I do not like about the history we have learned so far is that a few Italian-Americans that were a part of the Black Hand ruined it for the rest. Surely, a few people do not represent the whole group. However, it is easy for individuals of different races to characterize a race a certain way due to the decisions of a select few. That is exactly what happens with the Muslim community in this day and age. A few extremists mold the minds of individuals of other religions to believe that all Muslims are terrorists, which is definitely not true since violence is a grave sin as outlined in the Islamic holy book.

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  9. The New York Times article and the Black Hand short tie in with each other. The author of the article explained the hardships that Italian Americans had to face when migrating to the US. The Black Hand short shows how Americans viewed the Italian Americans. You see the story from two different perspectives.

    Although I loved the New York Times article, watching what the Italians had to go through in the Black Hand short really grabbed my attention. You were able to actually see how they dehumanized this group of people.

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    1. Sai, I agree that actual video and photographs of the dehumanization of Italians makes all the difference. It's one thing to read about it but to once you see the evidence for yourself, it really sinks in.

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  10. The NYT article and how Lombroso labeled all of the Southern Italians as savages and rapists and blamed them for all the increasing crime that was occurring in the United States is related to the cartoons that were created as propaganda against the Italians. They are related because they go hand and hand in the sense if Lombroso had never come out with this theory on how the Southern Italians were such terrible people, then the stigma of them being so terrible would have never sparked the propaganda that was created about the Italians. The cartoons kept the label of the Italian Americans being criminals and horrible people alive, but if the idea of the Italian Americans being terrible was never created then the cartoons would have never had the idea to begin with.

    The “Black Hand” really grabbed my attention as well because they created this figure that was such a terrible human and would rob and kill people just to continue to have someone that was Italian American to blame for all the crimes that were committed. Whether they knew who caused the crimes or not didn't matter, and whether they were different people that were doing these crimes they would use the Black Hand as a scape goat and to continue the hatred and racism against the Italian Americans and to try and keep them out of the United States.

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  11. The greatest connection I can make to the NYT article are the cartoons. The NYT article states that “He compared them to lower primates and said they were more likely to commit violent crimes when they arrived in the United States than immigrants from Germany, Norway, Austria, Sweden, England and every other European country.” Italians were considered and viewed as animals, which made Americans treat them as what they thought they were. In most of the cartoons they depicted Italians as mice or rats, which meant that they were unwanted or “A Nuisance to Pedestrians”. In one of the cartoons they even referred to a way of getting rid of Italians as the same way as getting rid of unwanted rats, stray dogs or other animals by putting them in a cage and lowering them into the river.

    With that being said, the other text that stood out to me were the cartoons. They show how badly the Italians were treated and the reputation that they had. They were truly treated like they were nothing the way they were beaten and then arrested and even put into cages. They were depicted as apes coming from the “Slums of Europe”.

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  12. The New York Times Article relates to the film The Black Hand. The article wrote about American's fear - if they let Italians into the country, they're going to rob and murder us, Italians are criminals. The Black Hand was a short film about exactly that. Two Italian Americans who threatened a butcher, they demand he give them money or else they will harm his family and his shot. The butcher is afraid and upset, but he is unable to meet their demands. The gang then kidnaps his daughter.


    The cartoons stood out to me. Specifically the cartoons that showed Italians as cockroaches. I am Jewish, so I compare everything to anti semitism surrounding WW2. In the early 1900's, the Nazis depicted Jews as cockroaches. This was a major psychological play for the Nazis. They showed the Jews as sub human, as animals. This made the public see them as "less than". The public was okay seeing the Jews being physically attacked because they did not see the Jews as human, they didn't empathize with them, because the propaganda showed Jews as animals.

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    1. This is so interesting because I feel that we have yet to touch on how this related to the strong Anti-Semitism of the 1900's. This is such a worthy comparison. The role of propaganda for Jews in the 1900's was much worse than Italian propaganda, but it is crazy for me to think that Lombroso's "born criminal" affected the entire mindset of how people viewed Italians.

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  13. The NYT article that connects the most to another article is New Orleans 1891. The NYT article goes into detail about how Italians were classified as criminals, Lombroso made some assumptions with measurements and descriptions that directly represented all Italians, and he marked them as criminals. The New Orleans 1891 directly relates to this because of the many Italian men that were put into prison. There was no investigation to prove who was the true criminal, but because this was the representation created of Italians everyone assumed it was them who committed the crimes. The NYT article has many points that show the hardships Italians went through to become Italian- Americans, and New Orleans is one of those hardships.

    Besides the NTY article, i have two that grabbed my attention, New Orleans 1891 and The Black Hand. Since i already discussed New Orleans, I will go into detail about The Black Hand. I think that the Black Hand was a cruel attack on the Italian who emigrated and was a easy way to scam money from the families. The Black Hand to me is an early representation of the mob. What The Black Hand members did is exactly how the mob treats people. All the Italians knew they would not get help from the police when it came to the Black Hand, this put them in a bad position because they either had to pay up or get drastically affected.

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  14. The cartoons reinforce the NYTimes article. Italians were living in poverty, unable to escape it no matter how hard they worked. They needed to find a better life for themselves and their families; people started leaving. At first little by little, but then everyone started moving to America. There were too many Italians moving here, it got out of hand. The government wanted to stop the Italians from moving to America so they decided to use propaganda. They wanted the Italians out, so they started spreading the word that they were bad people. The cartoons that were shown were some of the ones that were used. As you see, the article was a written out description of what happened, and the cartoons were proof of how they did it.

    Son of Italy grabbed my attention the most compared to the other; I personally got a deeper connection and understanding of what life must have been like through the eyes of a little boy. To live in such fear and poverty, and not having anyone by your side, not even your parents. It all seems very sad and unbelievable. You really get a feeling of how hard you had to work in order to survive, and how hard life was. Most children did not even go to school for long, they had to work at a really young age in order to barely stay alive.

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  15. I am going to connect the NYT article with the cartoons because those are what grabbed my attention the most. The NYT article talks about how the Italian Americans were betrayed by one of their own who came up with some sort of description of the majority of the immigrants and compared them to lower primates. The Italian Americans were accused of being savages and rapists even though that is what they were trying to escape. The cartoons show how propaganda reinforce this opinion of the Italian Americans. One of the cartoons show a shoeshine with apelike features and many others taking innocent images and attaching a caption that spins it into making the Italian Americans look like violent people.

    The reason the comics grabbed my attention the most is because these were probably targeted to children as well, they were trying to instill this prejudice in children through making the Italian Americans look like dangerous, beggars, and apes. When you grow up believing something, it sticks with you and this propaganda probably raised a whole generation of racists.

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  16. In the Son of Italy D'Angelo spoke of the toil, which payed very little, that lead him, his father and other Southern Italians, in the hopes of better fortunes, to America. Most of the people, men and women, of his town labored on the fields of land owners. The night that D'Angelo learned his father was leaving to America the dinner that they had was insufficient, they had no time to speak of his father's decision before they finish their snack that they had no choice but to call dinner. Many years later The NYT op-ed by Stapinsky the author of "When America Barred Italians" affirms the stories in the Son of Italy. Stapinsky's research found that many of her ancestor migrated to america, similar to D'Angelo's father, because of the hardships they faced at home. She discovered that her ancestors worked in the field of land owner, in spite of their hard work, were paid as little as .40 cents per day. The money that they earned was barely enough to feed their families and most of the time women had to work the lands as well. The landowners, were so vicious, they only gave worker meat once a year for dinner. Although these two authors were years apart, they noticed that the laborious strife of Southern Italians was prevalent while the money and food that they so rightfully earned was scarce.

    The Son of Italy grabbed my attention because of the success story that is told. D'Angelo came to America and laborer for years. He moved from state to state and city to city never calling one place home but persevered. Although he was illiterate, even in Italian, he only spoke his town's dialect, he became a published other who wrote a book in english.

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